Some similarities. Ditto on the research... For the most part, if the information exists, I can find it, cross reference it, verify it, and have it memorized before my proverbial morning coffee. That, coupled with a near-eidetic memory, combines to make me really excel at learning (Lately, I've been applying it to a couple languages... for "fun").
I'm far more athletic than I should be. Grew up with all sorts of complications from an immune disorder, but still excelled at the sports I took up (In particular, martial arts and baseball. Last year I "retired" from training MMA and took up golf. Have myself almost to playing bogey in little under a year with a driver swing speed around 105).
Anything involving hand-eye coordination. Have very dextrous hands and (I got some help getting tested on a slow work night) 20/13 vision... Though the down side to that is that I'm a bit farsighted. When my SO gets up close in Personal Range she's blurry and headache-inducing. laugh
Music. Again, same combination -- Manual dexterity and memory. I can pick up a song after a listen or two and it's memorized for life (Guitar, Vocals).
Hmm.... I'm pretty good at making money, and exceptionally good at strategic sales. I'm spectacular at simplification: give me a convoluted concept, and I'll find a way to put it across to Larry the Cable Guy. I'd like to become spectacular at teaching all 3 of those things (one of my current focuses).
Hmm. I had decided, in my early 20s, that I wasn't spectacular at anything. That was somewhat incorrect, because I had accomplished all kinds of stuff... but because I wasn't undisputed #1 at any one thing, it was never satisfying. My motivations were all wrong too... money, girls etc.
Then in my mid-twenties, I focused in depth for a few years on something for the first time in my life, and became #1 at it. It was very satisfying, and changed my perspective because I realized I am motivated by excellence, not money/ status etc. Turns out I like creating things that make peoples lives better, and I like to be very good at it. And I've learned the usual 'Captain Obvious' lessons: it takes time to get excellent at something (I still have a patience problem), focus (I love doing 10 things at once), and a new lesson: trusting my intuition, which I have sacrificed at the altar of conscious logical analysis one too many times.
All I can say, Ace, is that 1. You're obviously way smarter than average (from reading your posts). The potential obviously exists. 2. I've been surprised at the number of things people take for granted as 'innate' that simply aren't. Much can be learned, even things that would seem to be in-born. Frankly, there's very little that you cannot take up and become #1 at within a few years. 3. But it will typically take some time. So its worth it to pursue something thats fun for you, and that you're proud of, so that you don't care about the world's perceptions of success as much as most people do. At least, thats whats working for me - and ironically its ended up achieving 'success' in the worlds eyes. Of course, that means its time for me to move up a notch so I'm already somewhat dissatisfied. But thats probably how growth works!
I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all, this is just a description of my own personal growth, in case it is of any help.
I'm encouraged to read about Travtex and IM's confidence in sports. I've always been fit, but never exceptional at sports, and have never figured out why. Have always noticed that the SPs in my life are exceptional, the NTJs not so much. Maybe its just the same as described above.... needs practice and focus. My other major regret is that I can't sing (though I have some natural skill with the drums). If you guys have any tips on how to learn singing or get better at sports/ hand-eye coordination, I'm all ears.
ComplexMango, thanks for the compliments. I also find that my motives currently are money and superhot women. I kind of realize they're the wrong motives but on the other hand I obviously don't realize it completely. I'm only 21 though so I really hope I'll become more mature in my later years like you did and that I'll find that one thing that brings meaning into my life.
I got a good piece of advice from my INTP friend the other day. He said that you have to enjoy the process of doing something to become spectacular at it. You have to be less focused on the end results and more focused on enjoying the ride, the process. Kind of obvious but some people like me just don't get it. I'm way too results oriented to enjoy life.
Also what you've said under #3 about "achieving 'success' in the worlds eyes" is so true for me. I seem to look for stuff that other people recognize as success instead of just finding something I really enjoy doing and the success will come by itself. I hate to be conformist but still I depend on people's opinions way too much.
My project for quite some time now has been "finding a thing I love and have the potential to become great at" :ugeek:
It's not easy, and it'll take a long time but it's better to just sit around for 10 years doing nothing and find that thing than to build a career on bad foundations.
Your INTP friend sounds like a smart guy, and a lot like my INTP friend. My experience with your quote was the journey starts at "finding a thing I love". The 'become great' part will naturally happen, doesn't really have to do with potential. But I've noticed that the 'thing I love' tends to change over time, and the love can end too, to give way to a new, greater love. Kind of weird how that works.
Nothing wrong with money and hot women. Its just that if you chase them, they won't chase you.
Personally, I think its a bad idea to wait for 10 years. I like staying active and doing what looks like fun, and generally one thing tends to lead to another, and when you find 'THE' thing, you know. The exploratory journey is fun, even though its frustrating at times. Its especially frustrating if you're doing something just for the money. I like to play a game with myself, from time to time, where I say - "If I was worth $100 million, would I still be doing this?". When the answer is no, I make plans to move on, and start exploring for the next wave of ideas and opportunities.
Lastly, and I learnt this the hard way, it really pays to be #1. Being #1 just has a lot of unforeseeable benefits. And if you're #1 at what you love, you're going to be a very happy person. I haven't accomplished that yet, but I'm going to keep trying.
I think you're a lucky guy to be thinking about this stuff early. I wasted too much time doing things that 'made sense' for the rest of the world, but not me. But, I remind myself, I'm not quite as old as I sound sometimes. It just feels weird to no longer be the youngest guy in the room.
Putting in the time necessary to be great will bring you success... even if you hate doing it; you can still be great at something you hate. I became the best in the world at something I really only enjoyed when I got the payoff (not money). This took its toll on me and now I am purely looking for something that brings me inner peace and happiness. I went from having success as my major goal to having happiness as my major goal. I haven't found that happiness yet, as hard as I work at it... there is now a void in my life.
I think that what you want from life changes with age. When I was 21, I wanted superhot women, expensive cars, and loads of money.... but now I just want consistency... children and a wife. I lost my closest opportunity for this, maybe with the wrong girl for me, a little while ago because of my extremely goal and work oriented attitude.
I don't consider myself shallow, but I will say that I need things that a shallow person would in order to move on and be deep.
I guess what I am saying is this: You don't have to love something to be great at it, but it would probably make your life a lot happier if you did.
-sorry for the depressed tone, i'm having a bad night. sigh.
In both cases, for me at least, it was simple stubbornness. When I started singing and playing the guitar, I had no ear whatsoever and couldn't work out a chord progression in a four chord song even sitting there for hours rewinding the tape and listening, rewinding listening.
Think the key to development was that I was willing to sit there for hours rewinding and listening, rewinding listening...
Same with baseball and martial arts. I was the skinny scrawny kid with health problems. Then I'd go practice for hours a day, every single day.
"Natural talent" takes a hell of a lot of work. hah
Have you read 'Happier' by Tal Ben-Shahar? The title may sound tacky, but its excellent, and very clever - explaining happiness from the point of view of positive psychology. Author is definitely an NT, which helps. It helped me turn a corner on the issue of happiness, starting with recognition of the fact that 'Happiness is the Ultimate Currency'. Even reading the first two chapters should provide some value.
Writing (I don’t put much of an effort in it anylonger, because I exceled … and moved on with my interest but I can if I wish to, comes very handy at work)
all “balance sport” like martial arts, skiing and sailing. Not good with anything that needs coordination with a ball etc.
…a lot more
Flirting and Seduction (wasn’t that much aware of it until I red what LeonardoLestat wrote… then it made BING! I’m awsome… some of my “I” friends called me man-eater :whistle: )
My “E” friends just tend to chuckle knowlingly when I get in top form
Usually anything I feel compelled to learn towards self improvement, and what I feel will get the goal done.
Writing (Many people wonder how I am able to just spill out perfect word combinations and meanings. I have stopped writing because once something bores me I am unable to continue. It was great for self expression, compassion, and overall character building.)
Art (Something I enjoyed to do at a very young age, and also quit at a very young age. By 10 I was attending a college level program for art, but once it became simplistic I abandoned ship. Great for depicting symbols, and perceiving a broader perspective of creativity.)
Psychology (A much more natural trait that I found extremely useful to pursue. Understanding what you have, and how to apply it. Builds self image, observation, controlling outcomes, and ability to ‘mirror’.)
Some other things would include fighting, language learning, instruments, pitch throwing/public speaking, and when it comes to games I enjoy I become the best at them.
I suppose, with what seems to be the ENTJ personality, we’re capable of easily perceiving things. The issue is when things become boring, or are all ready unintriguing from the start. Resulting in lack of interest, and leading to incapability.
I guess I’ll kind of use this as my introduction to the group since this is my first post. I know one thing I am not good at is showcasing my talents, but it’s much easier on a forum.
Athletics - I in no way, shape, or form have an athletic body type that gains muscle easily, etc., but every sport I have put my mind to, I have been able to excel at. My passion is riding horses, and I think being an ENTJ has taken me down a unique road in training. I’m known for a no nonsense attitude that can get correct results quickly and having the ability to learn from my horses, from my mistakes, and therefore have taken on some extreme cases with very good results. Most of my best rides have come from horses deemed dangerous or that no one else was willing to take on, including one I hope to rank nationally this coming year in dressage.
Art - Anything that involves analyzing, I can rock, especially when it, again, involves a physical skill. I’m a copycat artist, though, so I take pieces of other pictures and “copy” them freehand to make a different picture. I’ve never had the time to go beyond this, unfortunately. Instead, I picked up photography and have had great success with that, having been in several books already.
Driving - It’s silly, but different. My best friend’s dad fixed up cars, so we were constantly test driving vehicles that were missing gears, had bad breaks, etc. I once had to drive my own car half an hour back from the barn with no brakes and make it through the city to my house. My e-brake was shot, but I did make it without destroying my gears or transmission (it was an automatic). Now I would have it towed, but I was young and stupid and poor back them.
Life - I’m an emotional cockroach. I think the ENTJ’s motto of always learning has allowed me to get through some very rough situations that would have sent others running. I also have learned to make do with whatever is available. Like right now, I have a professional career making a good chunk of money, have several hobbies that also pull in money, but I have never attended college. It just wasn’t something that was in my cards, and I hope to some day, but for now, I’m doing all right. It somehow seems that if you work enough, the opportunities always present themselves. My goal is to not eff them up now that I have them
I am best at things that require physical movement or rhythm:
dancing and choreography for musicals-never had much dance training but could pick it up by watching. The choreography part has more to do with organizing groups of people and telling them what to do (but I cant sing)
Tennis, hunter jumping equestrian- seems like I am extremely athletic
Public speaking and leading- should be a given for types like us
( talking, talking, talking, analyzing, organizing thoughts)
Artwork- am also a freelance artist and can copy most styles of art but can’t find my own
Planning anything- vacations, grocery store trips, my own funeral- I CAN PLAN!
Lastly- adapting to what other people want me to be in a conversation, a coffee date, the bedroom,etc., so I can learn what they want and manipulate it to my advantage, if possible and if interested. it might be my dark side but it’s the truth. anyone else try to do that?
Surround yourself by INTJs, have them be your advisors. They usually have a pretty good plan laid out but you have to be patient with them to understand their vision. When the time comes, you’ll be there to turn plan into reality.