Haha, nice. Agreed on your points of being in different businesses, not overlapping work, except as an investor. Yes, dating a younger woman makes sense, but I’m not ‘an older man’ - I’ll settle for a few years younger, rather than 15.
Just as I am skeptical about the existence of ENTJ women that can put family as #1 and be ‘domestic goddesses’ without killing their careers, apparently you are skeptical about young men that can have viable, cashflowing business empires without inheriting them. The good news is that the latter exists, and hopefully the former exists too. Maybe this forum makes both types easier to find?
Its not always as wonderful as it sounds, btw - for example, I’ve been working mostly all weekend, because I just got back from a 10 day vacation. But I only do it because I am enjoying myself. And it means I can dash off rapid-fire responses on the forum.
Is your notion of “domestic goddess” something akin to Martha Stewart or Nigella Lawson? I’m sure as an ENTJ, she’ll find a way to create the perfect domesticity in addition to starting a few charities, planning your social outings and events to attend, and numerous dinner parties for all your business friends. The ENTJ domestic goddess will also probably patronize the arts, find up-and-coming artists to document and immortalize your relationship.
Or is your notion of domestic goddess something else entirely?
Haha, you’re hilarious. No, unfortunately Martha Stewart (ISTJ I think?) would be smart but very boring indeed. I don’t really like entertaining ‘business friends’ at home and detest work-related dinner parties. And immortalizing the relationship, however inevitable, should be left to the minions and admirers, not to my significant other.
I’m fairly certain Martha is ENTJ. Let’s remember how people act on camera is not really how they are.
It sounds a bit like you want a housewife who stays home all the time and does nothing else but clean the house and prepare meals? That’s not what I call a “domestic goddess”. ENTJs naturally have a need to organize, direct and execute. If you expect to find your ENTJ domestic goddess, expect her to plan elaborate meals, parties and social events for you to attend together. Otherwise, she’ll be bored out of her mind.
I cannot claim to have watched much of Martha on TV, but she doesn’t strike me as an N.
Let me clarify. My questions aren’t really about what I’m looking for, they’re more about trying to understand the female ENTJ mindset and their priorities, because I realize in spite of sharing similar temperaments, gender differences may impact their choices significantly. As for me, I’d love for whoever I marry to be their own person and pursue their own dreams, whatever those may be, whether its running a business or a home or pursuing the arts or anything else. I would, however, prefer someone who would prioritize family over career in specific times of their life when the two are in conflict.
My question is this: Given the many gifts ENTJ women have, and the success they are bound to find in a career/ business, how do they feel about the work/ family balance? Would they be interested in putting family first, even if that would have an impact on their careers? e.g. Would they think it a priority to take a couple years off from work, or work part time for a few years when their kids are young? Would they even go so far as to work on building the ‘perfect’ family life, full of, as you said, elaborate meals, parties and social events (for the pure enjoyment of life, not for my career advancement)? Or would they feel that type of lifestyle to be a demotion from the utilization of their highly valuable skill sets in the workplace?
I don’t think either choice is wrong, its a question of personal preference. I just wonder what the ENTJ female preference is likely to be, because its not obvious to me.
I think you have a view of ISTJ women that is very inaccurate. I know several ISTJ women personally who have tested as ISTJ on the MBTI and they are the opposite of perfectionists. They are very accomodating women who will often not argue against anyone. The only perfectionists I know are ENTJ women who can often be very critical and short-tempered.
Of course, we then later come to the realization that we often get more done and with more productivity if we’re nice and withhold our fury. Therefore, we might be standing there not saying a thing staring at you, then walk away, but will later say something that is more diplomatic along the lines of “Everyone makes mistakes- it’s OK. Just do it better next time” whereas inwardly we might have been thinking previously but won’t say aloud: “That idiot! How many times did I tell him not to do that and he did it again!”
After noticing my behavior in other ENTJ females, I’ve chilled out quite a bit. I’ve come to the philosophy that life is about the journey, being perfect and productive all the time doesn’t equate happiness, and the point is to experience the beauty of the simple things in life and appreciate the people who love you.
As far as child rearing, I don’t really see a conflict between home life and work life. I imagine that if an ENTJ woman chose to start a family that she is completely ready for that particular stage of her life and that would include engaging in other entreprenuerial ventures that wouldn’t take away from home life. She’ll probably already have mapped out the child’s playdates, the multiple languages the child would learn from the age of 3, tutors for advanced math at age 5, painting and music lessons every weekend at the museum and conservatory, and all the private schools she’s considering for the child. IMHO, I don’t think ENTJs ever do anything on a whim, they like to plan.
So you ignored my advice because it didn’t suit you which means you probably are uncertain of how you feel about this girl, but now you are asking about simply hooking up with her? The J in Entj 9/10 times means that the girl has standards of what’s acceptable in a relationship. You are just going to have to find out what her personal standards are.
Well you left some important information out, so now my opinion has changed a bit. She might just have enjoyed the attention that you were giving her. If that is the case, I’m sorry because that is a very selfish, immature attitude. Does she have many girlfriends? Does she rely on guys for input more than women? I am seeing a resemblance in an Entj female friend of mine that uses the attention that “male friends” give her in the short term to get over previous relationships. She doesn’t have many female friends; I am basically it. It’s hard for me to completely understand what’s in her mind, because I would never be physically intimate with someone I wasn’t in love with. If I had to guess based on everything you have said, I think she was toying with the idea of you but for whatever reason was never completely into it. Saying “I don’t want to lead you on” is a blunt, direct statement and should be taken as such. It seems she has already made up her mind that she doesn’t want more, but maybe she enjoys the idea of you on some level and is selfishly enjoying your attention. But that is my guess based on the information you have given…
I have actually thought about saying something similar to a guy. I have been “hooking up with” him for 3 months, I dont usually get into relationships because I get bored and just dont care. We are not in a relationship and I never wanted to be in one with him. I have told him 3 times that I dont think we should get together anymore, but then he comes back a few days later and I make my standards clear again because I suppose I want to give him a chance to be what I want and I do like the attention (talk to me like this, do X if you expect Y, I will give you what you deserve, I will do keep seeing you if we are mutually benefitting, we need to draw the line at certain things to keep it casual).
So, I saw him recently and he got my standards right this last time. Now I am scared. I really dont think I should see him again for the fear that he has adapted to what I like and now I dont know what to do. I “dont want to lead him on” because I am no longer able to separate hooking up from liking him. Before I didnt feel more than a strong physical attraction. He is sticking around for some reason, but may be leaving the state in a couple months so now I am very hesitant to even see him again. I am thinking having him learn the things that would make me happy to continue seeing him was a bad idea and I am ready to just start ignoring him. He could be an ENTJ / ESTJ (I doubt it though). He is definitely E + T.
I understand how this could be irritating for another person, but personally, I feel I am always dealing with inner turmoil of being pulled in different directions. I have done an awesome job listening to my brain. It has always worked. I really let myself get hurt early on (maybe in HS even) by listening to my heart, repeated it again in college, and have found that listening to my heart will let me down. I am willing to bet she is in a similar situation. You are doing things by the book (valentines gift, etc) and even if you dont think these acts are getting you anywhere I think they are.
Here is the thing, ENTJs are extremely loyal people but it takes us a long time to get close to someone and trust that they have only the best intention. I am baffled by people who go from one serious fling to another. It takes a while to invite people into my life, but once I believe they are there, they will get my all. Unfortunately you are going through the tricky part which will just take time. The most important thing is to be consistent during this period.
If you don’t like what you attract in your life stop blaming the things you attract, at least not all the time.
If you attract weak males , it’s not them, it’s you. Yes world is full with people that are not up to our standards but still if you allow them into your life it says something about yourself, and no , you don’t need several dates to know someone, you only need a minute. IF they are “weak males” you are a “weak female” , and NO ! being feminine doesn’t mean skirts or “girly” , it’s more then that. Actually is less then that. To find out what it really means is to give up all your images about yourself and see what is left, and no it’s not intellectual nor emotional, it’s beyond types and gender. It’s not about achievements nor spiritual superiority. It’s not about “making sense” or making the cleverest comments, “a mind which is measuring cannot find truth” , saying that to entj is like saying “your values are shit” to an infp.
It’s funny how some people refuse to see what is not balanced in their lives , they say “oh I just don’t get how the other types can complete me” let me get someone like myself (ENTJ) that will make me happy, temperament homosexuality is not the “best solution” to heal your frustration or maybe it is what the fuck I know !? … huh ?
If you have the urge to hit reply and comment each of my sentence and prove me how my reason is “faulty” or simply you find my post offensive in some way you haven’t understood a thing of what I’ve just said.
Really interesting thread, so many posts, many people and many ideas! I love it.
It’s true to me. We ENTJ like to plan, not doing any such important thing on a whim, but with plan.
Eg. When my ex and I decided to settle down, we planned everything in advance. Time for the marriage, time to have children, country to live in (his country or mine as we came from different countries), what place is best for both, whether i can build the family with him there. As a woman, i must consider many things such as: financial statusability that i can earn money if i live in his country ( to me, dependent on someone’s finance is the worst senario, even he is my husband), his ability to raise a family: ability to make money and be the strong in crisis if any ( what i think is the MOST important thing from a man that makes a woman feel secured to settle down with, despite of any personality type).
As i read from many posts above ( honestly so many posts that i couldnt read all), many ENTJ women stated that there are so many weak men out there. But im not clear what is “weak” to them? What is a strong man?
To me," Strong" is not " rude" or " macho". A strong man is not defined by his appearance, or emotion expressed outside…, but as i stated above: the ability to build a family and raise his children, especially under crisis. (im not implying in gold digger). So strong man can be any type, not just ENTJ or INTJ. What’s wrong with a man who is caring person? i find him a possible good husband and father, who is very good to partner with, so he is definitely not a weak man at all.
I dont think choosing partner who meets ALL standards set on paper is a good idea. We are not choosing a business contract. How many lives do we have? ONLY 1. When can we meet that one? Waiting for a whole life? Really not practical. Yes, best way is making you famous and many people know you, then you have more chance to know many people and choose someone that SEEMS pair enough. But should think of this: assume we meet him, is it REALLY an ideal partner or as the more we know about him, the more we will find many things bad instead? God knows. I agree with ChristianLuca (although i find his words somewhat a little offensive ) on looking what we are lack of and try to fulfill it by the other partner. Or at least, try to work on it to balance ourself, then we would have a very different look on other men.
And yes, femininity is not wearing skirt only, it’s more than that.
It’s funny that we ENTJ women are considered so carefully by the guy named CM. He put ENTJ women under his microscope and checks every aspect. How is your research so far, CM? anything unclear??
Besides that I’m so so happy to read all this and to learn: “there are more women like me out there!” I “feel” with you: Most men around me are wimps, and I DO feel so sorry for them when I see them falling for me.
I think as an entj female we need someone to challange our dominance without trying to dominate us… we will find out if he is right anyway.
e.g. a guy could try to outsmart me in a particular topic or be more emotionally intelligent than me (which would be quite a challange even for a strong “F” type).
In average I can say I want an alpha-male because I can not stand it when I feel he is weeker than me. But he should not dominate everything, I also need my share.
To answer Mangos questions:
I would put my KIDS always first… but I truely don’t think that it would be best for my children (if I ever have some) to stay home a couple of years. I would get obsessive, “slow-minded”, unhappy and frustrated etc.
I’m a project manager and can very well imagine to be self employed, so that I can spend as much time with my kids as I wish to and still have something to drive and the success I so desperately need!
Nah!!! He, CM, is cautious and does careful research as he is scared off when he imagines one day he gets married to an ENTJ girl. She would call him on his mobile: “ CM! Come home immediately in 5 mins! It’s 11 pm now, why are you still not home? Time for milking the baby now. Or else, i will go to the bar where you are at now, pull it down, and beat up all the short skirt with high heels girls around you now, and tear you apart!!! Geezzzz!!!” And his tigress roariing. He would run home with the speed of a rocket, trembling, and he might think: “oh my life is so miserable from now on, end of a handsome man life, no more freedom with girls….”( and tears…)
What a scary life!
What a nightmare wife!
I shake my head and sigh
How can i live tonight???
Is it hell or life?
Someone, tell me why?
If i die tonight
God! Take me to the sky!!!
Note: “ How can i live tonight??” use your N to figure out the real reason is:). Hehe
I’m engaged and I still have issues with my significant other. We are two very independent individuals and we struggle with having things our ways. I fear being tied down and he wants me around all of the time.
First lets have a look at the top 5 needs of humans males from their female mating partner:
ComplexMango, you have covered no 2 and no 5. Both of which if you are an ENTJ female are not hard to achieve. Workshops on grooming, colour and style, make up, manicures are not difficult to come by even in midsized cities. Domestic support? Call up a cleaning service or catering service. All this I am sure is well within the budget and of an effective female ENTJ.
From just skimming through this forum, it looks like the most difficult one is no 3 for ENTJ women. Men need to feel valued for their expertise, know how, special skill, leadership or something from their female partner. This is difficult to feign and terribly dishonest if one does. You read all over the “Dating and Relationships - the ENTJ approach” forum how the ENTJ females are not easily impressed. They have high expectations not just for others but for themselves as well.