Actually #3 is, in my opinion, the critical issue for both sexes. It encompasses or leads to all of your other points. I think too many people end up in relationships without #3. My favorite quote on the subject:
“Of the various pleasure that man can offer himself, the greatest is pride - the pleasure he takes in his own achievements and in the creation of his own character. The pleasure he takes in the character and achievements of another being is that of admiration. The highest expression of these two responses - pride and admiration - is romantic love. Its celebration is sex.”
I’m a female ENTJ, highly successful entrepreneur, and I’m probably a bit older than you are.
ENTJ women make a big mistake in thinking that we want an ENTJ man.
I would recommend that you look closely at accountants and engineers and academics, in other words, consider highly intellectual introverts. Perhaps an INTP. They have the self-confidence to stand up to you but they aren’t extroverts or egotists like we are.
Still waters run deep. These men keep our feet on the ground and force us to consider other viewpoints and personalities. And despite their exteriors their bravery gives us courage too.
I have found that quiet men are overlooked by women like us. We see them as weak. But many of them are amazing. Often that mousey exterior conceals remarkable intellect, integrity, and courage.
Try to find a man who is—
• highly intellectual
• well educated
Then take the time to get to know him. You might be very surprised. I found one of these men 10 years ago and he changed my life. I fell deeply in love with a man I would have rejected back in my 20s.
I couldn’t stop giggling while reading your post, it was almost like you were in my head. Dating for me has been a huge quest for finding out not if there is a man that exists that will ever live up my ‘energy’ or expectations but realized that it might be more possible if there is a man out there that would be close to my expectations and I his (generally a lot simpler).
I happen to know one man that lived up. He has been my best friend for 15 years now, close…so close. Everything a demanding girl could want: looks, smarts, romance, intelligence, success and he would challenge you to your best all the time and more. BUT there but the sexual/sensual chemistry was flatline from the beginning and never did develop. Now that’s a tragedy. (funny he did like his girlfriends to throw fits now and then…lol), he’s 1/35 million Canadians and 1/18 million males in Canada (general guess). So they may be rare, but they do exist. Sorry ladies, he finally met a woman worthy of him, sorry he’s happily married as of last year.
My g-friend & I just the other day sat down yesterday and listed all the men we’ve dated in our LIFETIME (excluding misc. # of the one-nighter hottie ‘what was his name?’ conquests). K, this took hours with all of the juicy stories amougst the list that seemed to be getting longer by the minute. Once we both past listing 40 (we’re both quite adventurous and not afraid to ask for a date), we rated our top 5. Criteria: Best characteristic/trait, looks & charm, successful/professional, performance in public/ bedroom and marriage potential. Only 1/40+ came close close on my list and I’m pretty open-minded in the spirit of adventure and learning. omg…dating crisis indeed.
I have worked in a man’s ‘world’ since I can remember and maybe that is natural for some of us female ENTJ’s. Working as a professional contractor I get the opportunity to observe a lot of them, everywhere and I hate to generalize but most of the men I want to talk, end up do talking to, either are the CEO/owners or runner up (or the authorities that own them). I get so bored with what one can describe as ‘men acquiescing to other men’s egos’ because there’s either: a) some of the are smart and care about the job (not usually the case) or b) anyone under these ‘top’ power men can’t seem to grow a pair. This is where I come in. All I have to say ladies…if you don’t have any balls, there’s nothing to loose. Maybe other things, but it doesn’t hurt as much.
Same goes in the dating ring, all a matter of fan-fare, I admit I enjoy a lot but when it get’s past the 2nd or 3rd date I feel waiting…wanting to ask…is that it? Usually is when I start asking questions that either dumbfound them or get them so out of the ‘PC’ world they get uncomfortable that they fidgit or squirm. Really?
Perspective check though, women only had voting rights since the 50’s, publicly accepted in the 70’s, women have only been ‘out of the home’ in NA for under 50 years. Note- maybe it is time for peace not war eh? lol. However, today in Canada women (likely ENTJ’s and of the like) are leading the economic well being of Canada with their small businesses —perhaps what saved us Canadians from the USA $ crisis of 2007/2008. Thanks ladies!
So, here’s a question:
In reality, do you really want to spend all your time looking for that perfect guy - that likely doesn’t exist?
I don’t know…I sure have invested enough time, and have come across a few ‘potentials’ the last few years --2 married and one gay (G*d, he did fool me for years- very, very clever). I think I’m finding a flavour for a ‘few’ of imperfect guys- each with their own strengths, only trouble I find is trying to make sure in you’re everyday ‘busyiness’ is trying to keep their details straight. lol.
Marriage: better be a big rock, mansion and some kinda contract along with it – one thing we know, like our counterpart ENTJ males is that you’re not walking in blind.
As an ENTJ female who has been married for 19 years, my recommendation is to marry another ENTJ. I am married to an INTJ, he is too much in his own head and cannot deal with any emotion. He has a backbone and is intellectually up to speed as an engineer, but he is my own personal party-pooper.
With another ENTJ you can discuss what you want, where you are willing to go, in a rational manner. I would look for someone who shares both your religious and political beliefs and is an ENTJ. Agreement about the important things is a lock. Everything else is just gravy and can be discussed in an academic way. In this pairing I believe it is best for one of the parties to be an engineer and the other to be something else. Engineers have their own world outside of the rest of us. This allows for each party to be ‘right’ and ‘on top’ in their own areas.
Household chores could be fairly split, each person pulling their own weight in a logical way. Parenting can be easier because you would typically be on the same page- unity is a big deal!
As a female ENTJ I have regularly been called intimidating but not by another ENTJ. While each party in this pairing may think they are right, logic and discussion will typically work out any problem after emotions are clarified and considered.
I think the key is to agree on who leads what when and where and deferring to the other in those areas. This is a marriage of equals and of equality. Men or Women ENTJs who marry people who can be dominated will be bored with their mate quickly. ENTJs may get excitement from golddiggers and boy toys, but petty, pretty, petulant, people are more annoying than anything in the long run.
(ENTJ male here btw)
Yikes. It’s kinda scary being around people like me, lol. (You must know I’m kidding…as an ENTJ, I’m not scared of anything…literally, I’ve only been scared once in my life)
OK. So this post was started in 2009…so every likely hood that it won’t be read by the original poster (suzilla!). No sweat.
I haven’t read the ENTIRE thread, but I have read many of the posts…some pretty cool stuff:
Some recent ones - ENTJ Woman 5. Wow. Very cool…good for you that you can see opportunity where you would have missed it earlier in life. I was thinking along the same lines, but not nearly so specific and profound. After reading your post, I’m sure I’ll read many more here looking for similar insight. Thanks for posting.
CRL_247. Wow. Equally cool…from the opposite perspective. I can’t tell you how much I love that. I’m sorry that you’re having a tough time getting your engineer out of his own head. Tough stuff…good luck with that moving forward. Thanks for sharing.
Kelly3357. Looks like my response is for you because the original will not likely see this, lol.
I feel sincere compassion for the plight of the ENTJ female trying to find a male love interest (of any type.)
(^…because your true nature and intention is likely misinterpreted and misunderstood)
I can’t tell you how much it cracks me up to see females with my potty mouth. Seriously funny. It doesn’t bother me a bit. I know what you’re doing because I do it to. You are telling it like it is…holding nothing back to make sure your point is clear. Sadly, our society doesn’t know what to do with that. A woman going straight for the rear naked choke? uhh…??? Yep. I get it. Honestly…but sadly, it will not likely be interpreted with warm regard by many. Of course, as ENTJs yourselves, I’m sure you don’t give a sh*t. Power to ya. No worries, …but it is a factor, make no mistake.
Try to remember that the “don’t be a pussy” factor has nothing to do with personality type. What you are really looking for is someone with PASSION FOR LIFE (or passion for something for he**'s sake). I don’t know if all ENTJs are overflowing with this, but it’s one of the words that is most commonly associated with anything I touch in my life. I’m not saying I’m the “best” (I’m not saying I’m not, lol)…but…I am DEEPLY ENGAGED, pulling with all of my might, trying to make a difference in the world that surrounds me.
If you (or any other person) walks into my environment…poses a threat to my vision…I will decapitate you. Straight up. And it is not personal btw. I think other ENTJs respect that (and if they don’t who gives a d*mn).
So, I think you’re primary looking for someone who cares about something and is “willing to die for it.” And secretly/subconsciously you know that someone like that will one day feel that way about YOU.
I promise you. There are people out there who would love nothing more than to share their life with a partner in crime, a trusted confidant, a fellow soldier, a passionate lover…so they can share life and their vision of the future together. (…and yes, this means they have a pair of balls)
I too have been married for 19 years. I cannot tell you how I have given my life for my best friend/lover/wife. I would happily give up my life for her…I would happily live my life for her.
Sadly, you have noticed (Kelly3357) a pattern. Many of us are already married (and will be for life, no joke). So, I’m not sure how old you are, but you have to find these guys young. I was 22 when I married…and I was TOTALLY ready for it in every way. We’re decisive…right? So, I think, …if you’re looking for the “home run”, he’s finding his soul-mate early in the game. (My older ENTJ buddies that are much older than me did the same thing…ex-VP of HP, lol ex-VP of KMart, lol.) So, if you are too old for a young guy, you’d best find a widower…but that’s going to majorly suck, because he’ll be surrounded by gold-diggers for sure. Aaaany who. Tough stuff for sure.
So, my advice is to forget about the personality thing…and find someone who loves what they do in life…and find out if you might be one of the things that they love too. Taking this approach, what’s the worst that can happen??? You get to associate with some people who are passionate about what they do in life. Aaaand that my friend can be contagious. Hahaha!!! Enjoy!!! Happy hunting.
Please Elaborate? I’m very interested to know how my ENTP side would be regarded, since in none ‘‘teamwork/time to get on with it’’ situations, I socially act like an ENTP, I had an probably ESTJ female confess respect and apologies, well anyways she had high standards(. I think the N sets a serious delayed fuse lol.
Was married to an INTP for 10 years… his inability to make quick (or even not quick!) decisions was frustrating, but i am very happy to have spent 10 years with a great person nonetheless. Our main mismatch was actually a “love language” mismatch
Currently dating an INTJ
so far i LOVE IT!!!
Ah a decisive organized intelligent man with depth patience and strength.
Personally i do NOT get along with “Feelers” no thank you!!!
Aww he must have really loved you to put that much time into giving a fuck. When someone approaches me talking about love languages I would rather shove them off a cliff rather than play those blindsided trust games. ENTJ always seem to require some decision to hide behind and come off as quite the crybaby when slut shamed.
“Ah a decisive organized intelligent man with depth patience and strength.” An INTJ? Lol this must be the honeymoon phase because I have tried to date one of those types before.
Sure they appear decisive, but then they consistently second guess and talk behind your back. Sure they appear intelligent but they always follow the most well traveled path. Sure they have depth until you actually see another INTJ whom looks almost exactly the same for all purposes intended. As far as patience and strength are concerned are we even talking about the same compulsive type that yields to every temptation that comes their way?
I’m quite sure that if you get to know one you will change your mind. They are quite predictable and boring. Perhaps you are a bit paranoid that they will pick up on something you are feeling? Lol even I can do that, you are like an open book.
Dohavior you are a GEM!
(Note: please look up sarcasm on Wikipedia)
You are an INTP huh? I’d trash talk you, but i can’t as one of my best friends is an INTP and he’s brilliant.
Oh and regarding “Feelers” my best friend is a female INFP and is an incredible human being
Feelers do not work for me romantically.
I highly suggest you stop making gross generalizations about someone you know nothing about, based on a few posts; but hey if this brings you joy, who am i to stop you.
Oh and BTW my INTP ex husband is an awesome person, we still have a great relationship, and he is someone i will trust and stay in touch with for the rest of my life.
Just because it did not work out for me with one INTP… does not mean anything about INTPs as a whole.
Was just imparting personal experience
there’s 8 pages of this and I don’t really want to read all of it. >_>
Female ENTJ, here. I got the general gist, but… long story short, I totally agree with not having any patience for weak-willed men.
I’m currently attempting to date an INTP, and I find him super interesting because of all of the crazy theories he has about himself and the world.
As a general rule, I absolutely love Introverts and Perceivers in romantic relationships. I-P’s tend to be really fun to talk to because their way of thinking is so vastly different than E-J’s. They’re also sincere and creative.
I’m pretty in tune with my F and S though, so maybe that’s also why I’m chill with the types inbetween.
After crawling through this thread, I think I understand the appeal INTPs have for ENTJs better. I think ENTJ Woman 5 puts it best:
INTPs may look like “weak” lumps of rumpled clothing on the outside, but, yeah, there is a spine of intellectual tungsten steel inside. INTPs don’t desire power like ENTJs do; we desire autonomy. So we won’t try to dominate you, but we will refuse to be dominated.
I think an INTP dating and ENTJ would be a lot like a knife dating a grindstone… And I’m not sure which one is the knife in this situation. I think the INTP would need to learn to be more assertive, and the ENTJ would need to learn to be more patient, sensitive, and listening.
On the one hand, it’s not quite true that INTPs are self-confident - really, a lot of us are depressive wrecks. But it’s like we have a psychic connection to The Truth, and we’re just the medium it flows through. We’re not important, the Truth is. I think an ENTJ could teach an INTP to be a lot more confident, as well as help out with the annoying Real World crap, and generally allow the INTP to be the true brilliant son-of-a-bitch (or daughter-of-a-bitch, I suppose?) that he or she is.
On the other hand, an INTP cannot be told what to do, they can only be persuaded. And that would require the ENTJ to develop more patience and intellectual depth. An INTP will keep you on your intellectual toes, watch your back, and quietly support and advise your plans for world-dominance.
INFPs might offer something similar, but I think the INTP’s rationality would be a better match.
Unfortunately, I don’t think I’m ready for a relationship with an ENTJ just yet. I’ve got more of a thing for INFPs. Grindstones are all well and good, but there is something to be said for a comfortable relationship with a fellow pile of rumbled clothes! (Mind the steel spine - those can be a bit sharp.)
I get the feeling you guys could be quite delightful one-on-one, but an entire pack of you can be quite intimidating. Intellectually, I’m intrigued by this thread, but I also had the same emotional reaction as this guy:
Literally LOLed there.
There’s also this:
I would say that Dohavior isn’t necessarily a typical INTP, but he may be typical for an INTP who is willing to hang around an entire forum of ENTJs for extended periods of time.
If you are interested in seeing how dating an INTP would be, or to get tips on the subject, or even to hook up with one, I’d suggest going to an INTP forum. They’re generally a lot more active than ENTJ forums, and I think one ENTJ among a lot of INTPs would be better than one INTP with a lot of ENTJs. And there would be a better chance of meeting an INTP who is socially well-adjusted and is mature enough to be looking for a bit of a grindstone.
I get the feeling that what’s going on is that true control freaks actually desire to be the bottom in the relationship. They’re still in control, but somebody else gets to do the job of making the decisions for a while.
Personally, I’m more for a relationship between equals… That and I haven’t had enough of the vanilla yet! Wait until I’m tired of that before you bring out the extra spicy!
Tip: If you are interested in dating an INTP, you might want to hold off on bringing up Ayn Rand or Men’s Rights Activism. That is, unless you’d like to see their left eye twitch and then hear them give you a half-hour imprompto philosophy seminar. (Depending on how much philosophy they know.) But, given what I’ve seen so far, some of you might actually enjoy that. In which case, I’d hold off until at least the third date.
(INTPs are, in fact, Fe users. They aren’t as service-oriented as, say, an INFJ, but it is there. If you start seriously proposing a philosophy that they know will result in harming other people the INTP Will. Stomp. You. But they would be willing to discuss it as a hypothetical.)
On the other hand, that is a phrase that you would never have to say to an INTP. Unless you’re going for that “awwww she has no idea how cute she is” thing…