INTP and ENTJ in all kinds of relationship


#1

Hello,

I would like to ask your input regarding the following questions:

  1. Do you have INTPs in your life?
  2. If so, do you feel they 'give' you anything?
  3. Could this 'anything', or something, be respect, companionship and a challenge?
  4. INTPs fancy themselves loyal advisors to ENTJs, do you agree with them in this matter?

Sorry for the 'interrogation' tone of the post, quite frankly you guys intimidate me.


#2

Very interesting subject, I've thought about it a lot. Had to jump in and address this once the RSS popped up on my lunch break.

  1. Do you have INTPs in your life?
    ANSWER: Yes - one parent, sister, close friend, and some business relationships.

  2. If so, do you feel they 'give' you anything?
    ANSWER: Yes, very much so.

  3. Could this 'anything', or something, be respect, companionship and a challenge?
    ANSWER: They seem to provide clarity to my thoughts, and help me understand myself and my world better. I suspect this is because they are primarily Ti-Ne, whereas I am Te-Ni. i.e. They carefully collect their thoughts to express it into an abstraction, wheras I absorb abstractions to express them into my thoughts and the real world. Another way to put it: they collect data from the real world to build into a theory, I use those and other theories as my intellectual base, and express them into the real world. Its a very symbiotic relationship, in my experience, since I provide them with significant real-world data, wheras they provide me with its precise, logical, rational meaning and structure. I suspect I get the better end of that bargain, and wish I could repay it better.
    There is excellent visibility and mutual respect, as well as the high quality companionship that accompanies those. However, its not 'perfect' companionship (is there such a thing?): I regularly do need high-octane real world ('E'? 'Se"?) interactions that they are averse to.

  4. INTPs fancy themselves loyal advisors to ENTJs, do you agree with them in this matter?
    ANSWER: I think that's up to the individuals concerned, but I would love to have INTPs on the board of directors of my businesses, once they get big enough to have a board of directors :slight_smile: Actually I sort of already do - I work with 2 INTP consultants (one of which is a close friend, the other is purely a business relationship), and find their consultative/ deductive abilities invaluable.

I get this 'intimidate' thing every once in a while, especially with some girls/women (and its not something I aspire to, because it closes some doors I'd prefer to keep open), but I think the trick to it is this: I don't have any problems admitting I'm wrong about something, if it can be proven to me (this should be a safe assumption for most ENTJs). In fact, I'll respect and appreciate a sincere and accurate critique, but I will probably annihilate any other kind. I think some people assume that if I am confident of what I am saying/ doing, then I'm dogmatic - that's not true. I'll just set a high bar for someone to prove me wrong, since I've generally thought things through, even if I am acting on the fly; but if they cross that bar, then I most certainly will back down.

There is no ego bruising involved in saying 'I was wrong, sorry'. However, it may be rare because I am perfection personified after all. :character-beavisbutthead:


#3

Hello ComplexM,

Thank you for replying. I'm an INTP myself, and have an ENTJ parent, so I probably shouldn't 'feel intimidated', but there you have it. It's not that I think you guys are forbidding or dogmatic, it's that I know how high your standards are.

With so many INTPs in your life (and just how did you manage to amass so many? some of us are of the opinion that more than 3 in a room are against physics laws), I bet you're more than used to a little smart assery (do I detect it rubbed off, oh personified perfection?).

One of the main differences between our types seems to be motivation. For INTPs motivation seems to be an elusive thing, tied to principles we keep in permanent review. I cannot understand where do you find your motivation. Clue me in?


#4

Visual reminders of what I am working for/towards.

i.e. The desired outcome in visual form.

e.g. Pictures of an island.


#5

Hi Camille,

I think its partly coincidence that I know some INTPs (e.g. family), but the rest (friends) is purposeful - they are some of the people I get along with best. Maybe they found in me an appreciation for their smart-assery and shared irreverence for social norms and authority figures.

I joke that my sister/ buddy 'wait' for things to happen to them - like Newton sitting under a tree waiting for an apple to fall so that he could have a snack. And then gravity got explained, entirely by chance. :wink:

I'm too impatient to wait. But motivation... I don't know the answer exactly. I do know that I act on probabilities, rather than certainties (the opposite of the INTPs I know), so it may have the effect of an ENTJ moving 'faster' since they are spending less time collecting data. And there is a thrill in seeing how fast you can move. On the other hand, the INTPs that I know can grasp an issue/ theory at a level of detail I am simply not going to achieve, which is an example of when my need to move quickly can be an impediment.

As to core motivation: my core motivation is to be as happy as possible in my life. So I pursue things that I enjoy and want to live my life to the fullest (which is currently expressing itself through work and some outside projects). I want to create something out of nothing, and be the best at something, ideally something that is deeply important to me. And it could really be anything - my new ambition is the most awesome chicken BBQ marinade I can come up with.

So currently, I am at the top of my profession in Texas, and aiming to increase market share/ revenues in TX, and expand out. But I've discovered my business doesn't scale to my ambitions, and I am no longer intrigued by its intellectual challenges (which were always meager), so I'm looking for a bigger challenge. The money is not the motivation, but its a way of keeping score. I'm also working on my personal health/ fitness continuously, and am in constant contact with family and close friends. There are obvious disadvantages too - I've been single for the last 9-10 months, while I've been stabilizing my businesses and exploring new options. I've also been single because I've been waiting for the perfect woman :slight_smile: and realizing that she is probably waiting for the perfect man, so I better prepare harder, because though I'm close, I'm not there yet!

Maybe this answers some of your questions. Would be interested in your thoughts and a contrast as an INTP?


#6
  1. Do you have INTPs in your life?
    Yes, one great friend and an uncle.

  2. If so, do you feel they 'give' you anything?
    Yes and no. We have no emotional connection. There is no chemistry. But the thing that allows us to get along so great is that we both are able to speak our minds in their entireties. We are not touchy feely at all. Our conversations are purely intellectual. To an outsider, it may appear that we do not care about each other, but in reality, INTP's are my best friends.

  3. Could this 'anything', or something, be respect, companionship and a challenge?
    Yes. I respect my INTP's. I enjoy their companionship, and their different point of view. They see the world completely differently from us, but think on the same wavelength that we do (NT). Thus, we are able to hear a completely different perspective (IP). It goes both ways. They love our EJ too.

  4. INTPs fancy themselves loyal advisors to ENTJs, do you agree with them in this matter?
    I don't know. I respect my INTP friend just as much as he respects me. If he feels he could be my advisor, so be it. I think that if we were to start on a business endeavor together, he would definitely let me deal with the heavy duty work. So in that sense, I think you may be correct actually.


#7

Another INTP here.

Regarding motivation, I can attest to a very successful experience with ENTJ & INTP. (This is all just speaking for myself and the ENTJ in question; I have no idea how universally this will apply.) Both of us were perfectionists, yet I observed in absolute awe as he worked diligently towards perfection and consistently achieved it, while I was stuck in this state of .. I guess of intimidation because it seemed like a lot of work with very little guarantee of success, many opportunities to fail and end up in an even worse place than before, etc. He was the first person who ever told me that my perfectionism is a great thing, and that if I nurture it correctly it gives me an advantage over 99% of the world. It really turned me around on a few issues. He expected perfection from me, which is so rare, and he did it because he knew I could handle it. This is the kind of thing that makes me think an ENTJ would be great to have in my life.

Other than that, I absolutely loved his passion for life, his laid-back approach to everything, his ability to be passive when it suited him. His E and J qualities (I guess) were what brought out the best in me. I need that kind of contrast. He had a good sense of humour, but I always felt the need to be a bit cautious about how black my humour can get. He seemed to need to view things in a positive light where possible, whereas I find a lot of humour in dark things. Maybe that was just him and not all ENTJ's?

In terms of what I offered him ... I think he was almost dumbfounded at times by my ability dissect a subject to its core, and take a strong stance on things that most people can't even figure out. We had many interesting conversations thanks to my perserverance on topics. I think he was also grateful for a person he could be really honest with, speak his mind, and I won't ever be hurt, offended, or judging. In hand, he appreciated my honest critique and opinion, but hated being picked apart too intimately. It was funny, he'd do something and later I'd detail exactly why he did it and what mental process he used, and he'd just be kind of speechless but impressed. He hated talking about himself, his personality - he only liked talking about his opinions on external things. I have a hard time letting people get away with that kind of thing if there's something I feel the need to criticize. That was a bit of a pitfall. He did open up to me eventually, but it always seemed to take a bit of an effort.

I'd love to hear any ENTJ thoughts - ways that you differ from what I'm describing, or what you think of my assessment of the ways he appreciated my INTP traits ....


#8

As an INTP, I can confirm this. My friend is ENTJ, and I know a few others.
I don't think it's specifically INTP-ENTJ, though. On the INTJ forums, there's a topic about INTJ-ENTJ relationships.
I think that, partially at least, rationals can express their ideas and theories to other rationals and have an educated discussion, while anyone else will have no idea what we're talking about, or at least need it explained to them on a lower level than rationals. Because of this, we tend to be able to find each other be figuring out who's actually getting what we say, and who has absolutely no clue.
And about 3 INTPs in one room, it happens every day in my chemistry class. The teacher is INTP, I am, and at least one other person in the class is, maybe two. And we're the people moving on to AP chem next year.


#9

As an INTP, I can confirm this. My friend is ENTJ, and I know a few others.
I don't think it's specifically INTP-ENTJ, though. On the INTJ forums, there's a topic about INTJ-ENTJ relationships.
I think that, partially at least, rationals can express their ideas and theories to other rationals and have an educated discussion, while anyone else will have no idea what we're talking about, or at least need it explained to them on a lower level than rationals. Because of this, we tend to be able to find each other be figuring out who's actually getting what we say, and who has absolutely no clue.
And about 3 INTPs in one room, it happens every day in my chemistry class. The teacher is INTP, I am, and at least one other person in the class is, maybe two. And we're the people moving on to AP chem next year.


#10
  1. Do you have INTPs in your life?
  2. Yes, one friend.
  3. If so, do you feel they 'give' you anything?
  4. He gives me knowledge, insight and inspiration, and I have fun talking to him.
  5. Could this 'anything', or something, be respect, companionship and a challenge?
  6. I respect anyone who is smart and knowledgeable. We don't have a big emotional connection but we help each other and do what friends are supposed to do.
  7. INTPs fancy themselves loyal advisors to ENTJs, do you agree with them in this matter?
  8. I've never heard of this before. INTPs usually don't like to be in organizations, or anyone's sidekick. But if you'd give them a lot of freedom in your organization they would be invaluable with their insight.

It's not easy to work with INTPs because they don't like to be lead and they fear being manipulated. They can be passive aggressive and uncooperative and a lot of them are allergic to Te, but some of them can be real geniuses with in-depth expertise in some areas that it pays of big-time to cater to their needs and sometimes irrational fears.

I think INTPs and ENTJs can accomplish great things together and they do in real life. INTPs have great ideas but they can rarely make anything happen. ENTJs are known for making stuff happen.


#11

1. Do you have INTPs in your life?

I have 3 INTP friends.

2. If so, do you feel they ‘give’ you anything?

They’re great at technical detail, very thorough in their research and balance me out in terms of thinking about various strategies.

3. Could this ‘anything’, or something, be respect, companionship and a challenge?

I respect my INTP friends immensely. However, they have the tendency to become stubborn if asked to go outside their comfort zone. Also I always make it a point to document everything INTPs say to me, so that there is no confusion and assumptions later on if we’re working on a project.

4. INTPs fancy themselves loyal advisors to ENTJs, do you agree with them in this matter?

Yes, completely! One of the most dependable and reliable types IMHO.


#12

Complex … wrote: I suspect this is because they are primarily Ti-Ne, whereas I am Te-Ni, i.e. They carefully collect their thoughts to express it into an abstraction, whereas I absorb abstractions to express them into my thoughts and the real world. Another way to put it: they collect data from the real world to build into a theory, I use those and other theories as my intellectual base, and express them into the real world.


Where did you learn this. It makes sense, but it this your conclusion from observation or did you read it?

mserogerb


#13

The funny thing is that it was brought to my attention by my INTP best friend, but it made a lot of sense based on what I had read about cognitive functions (i.e. the order in which your brain seems to process them, and the strength in which they are expressed). Observation backs it up 100% for me from the ENTJ side, as well as for a couple of INTPs that I have questioned intensively on the subject for their Ti-Ne piece. Has improved my relationship with them, now that I understand they are generally processing their Ti silently (directed inwards afterall), and I am processing outwards (Te) verbally, and that I am able to reach conclusions faster based on stored Ni themes, wheras they will take time to evaluate an argument in depth (Ti) in all possibilities to arrive at an Ne (occasionally novel and more likely than me to be correct) conclusion.

In fact, now that I understand it, its quite interesting to try and simulate it - my understanding of the basic INTP thought process is that they seem to collect data intensively and iterate over all possible outcomes (including all sub-branches of the decision tree) to answer any question. This sometimes allows them to pick up on counterintuitive concepts better than I can, so if I come across a particularly thorny analytical problem, feel I need to get into depth, and don’t have a time constraint, I try and take the same extensively iterative approach, rather than go with my gut.


#14

I think you guys are the best psy type around.

I don’t know personally any ENTJ, but my best friend is an ENFJ.