What is your born order in your family?


#21

Responding to the Blue:
Drama started with Grandma who passed away a year ago and the bullshit has been lasting over 20 years. It rolled from her generation down to my father and his sibling’s generation. My grand uncle(who isn’t the head of the family but everyone kinda sees him as one- that’s how awesome he is) has told me that, “Knowing you, my grandnephew, you will send the problem more effectively than your elders. I’m not worried about you at all.” Yeah, I’m a family guy. Drama is what gives family character and dynamic, but sometimes, it can be a bit too much. My role is to keep it down to a minimal. I’ve explained to all my cousins…See how bad the previous generation is? Hell no, we don’t want that! If we have a problem. Call me up, I’ll mediate and cook something! =] Let’s talk it out.

Yeah, I’ve been trying to persuade that idea with my father for 20 years. He finally caved in and tried it and surprisingly, it worked. He ended his problem. Did my grand uncle have a premonition?

Responding to the Green:
My father and I simply do not get along and it’s something I’ve anticipated for the last ten years. It’s fine. If things go accordingly, I’ll have things resolved in 2-3 years. My father intakes information at his own rate. This is as fast as he can go and I’m just grateful that he’s making progress. It’s slow, but still technically progress.

My mother…oh dear god…she worries and on the borderline of having a melt down because of the tension between my father and I. It’s difficult to calm my mother down and assure her, but I’m succeeding at it. I periodically keep her in cheque on what’s going on with me.

I may be ENTJ, but I have VARIOUS styles of communications. I’m not always a fieldmarshall when speaking to people. I can easily mask that trait of mine. The reason why I’ve trained and self disciplined myself to various styles is because my goal was to be able to have effective and efficient communications. I can attain things at a faster rate and be mobile at a faster rate. More knowledge, more power, more good can be accomplished.

I love my mother and father. Sometimes my mother a bit more. Since she’s in the middle of it all. My father had a difficult childhood. He was blacksheeped. He’s treating me the same way and I’m his only son. It’s predictable because it’s the only way he knows how to show love in some weird way that makes sense.

Also, I’m not well either. I have to fix myself internally. When I accomplish that…fixing myself internally, everything will fall into place. Right now, I have a career and life to set up. Once I have REAL ground to stand on. Like, i’ll be graduating in a week and move out and it will take me a year to be stable to have my own living place(grandmother is helping me out), and I have stable income and such…I can face my father. That’s when he will listen. That’s when he’ll see me eye to eye. If he doesn’t, then the family will take my side and eventually persuade him for me. Either way, he’s forced into submission to hear me out and give me a fair chance and open ears.

Yeah, a quarter of my family knows what’s going on exactly. My bestfriend, Stephanie, taught me about something called noise.

I have family members who label me as secretive or always hiding something. I’ve been told that my family feels that they don’t really know me. I am flattered and annoyed at the same time. I’m flattered that people care to know about me, but my logic kicks in eventually and figures out why and who they are. That’s where the annoyance kicks in. People who try to pry tend to be seen as the drama type and you’re trouble some. If you’re a troublesome family member, what makes you think I’m going to be stupid enough to keep you around close to me? You’re a type of person I do not want close to me. I do not feel safe around you. You’ve made too many mistakes and if I give you a formal feedback, your emo-stupid ass will tell me that i’m being confrontational like it’s a bad thing. I can’t work with you. I’m secretive. The thing I hate most in this world is noise. I cannot fathom the depths of my hatred for noise. Imagine my excitement for innovation and the ability to improvise on certain situation with a successful outcome. When I innovate an idea that I wish to apply, I’m excited as hell. I want to share it with someone but at the same time, I want to focus and I want to get things inline and figure out the details. I want to figure out which details work and which parts can be improved. I do not want noise. People create noise by always speaking about it or marking down what I have. I lose concentration.

Have you ever been in a situation where you have a fresh idea that you wish to share but that douchebag family member marks you down and say it won’t work? Unless they have the right merit/credentials/reputation, I’m not going to take your comments seriously. There are some exceptions. I will hear you out but I will ask myself if you have the intuition for it. I only trust intuitive people because of the unique way they process thought and ideas. Otherwise, you’re pulling it out of your arse. Most of the family will conclude me as the sensory type. Wrong. I’m the intuitive type. I’ve purposely concealed that side of me and I do work in secret.

I work in secret because I do not like noise. Simple as that. How far I’ve gotten in life will stay with me. I’m not finished with my goals yet. I don’t care for the norm of sharing myself to family. I believe that attachment is dead weight and I’ve kissed it off.

I do not appreciate family sticking their nose into my business. I want you out for a reason. Respect it. Always respect a person’s personal space. If I don’t want you to know about me, it’s probably not because of me. It’s because of you and how you presented yourself to me. Blame yourself internally first. Maybe that’s where you fucked up.

To briefly sum up who I am, just know that I have a high hatred for inefficiency. I hate liars and cheaters. People think I don’t have emotions. I do. I sound like I’m not intuned with people’s emotions. I’m fully aware of it. I just don’t have it as a priority. Get over it. The thing I hate now is noise. It’s inefficient and a distraction for me. I move based on emotions and how motivated I feel. For noise to exist and come my way…yeah, I need to cut out the sources. I’m determined to succeed.

Don’t get me wrong. Ultimate goal is to have everything stable within my family. It’s just my career/education comes first. :wink:


#22

You sound like you have thought this through, but at the same time you have clearly not thought this through. As an ENTJ it is hard for us to imagine that there are other people with differing perceptions of the world than our own. Clearly, ours is the best, the most objective and the most well-thought out.
I know this :wink: I get this.

About a year back I pretty much told my sister that she is a shitty mother. In all the ways that an ENTJ would look at it, she is. She lets her children run wild and develop what she calls “critical reasoning” before they are even able to developmentally rationalize anything.

Case in point: my grandparents who are 85 were over who can’t hear anything in a normal situation. Her 3 year old son decided to go in a noisy ass jolly jumper thing, designed for a 10 month old, and annoy the crap out of everyone in the room. She let this continue for a good 3 minutes before I lost it and told her to take care of it. She told me, ‘I’m teaching him a lesson. When he gets sick of it he won’t be able to get out without help and then he won’t do it again." We bickered a little, because I like to debate anything and everything, and then he whined and his dad went and got him out. The only lesson, to this day, that I believe it taught him is that he can do something inappropriate and then when he is finished, someone will rescue him. ANYWAY… I thought this was all over that night. She knew I didn’t approve of the way she handled it, but who fricken’ cares? If someone insults me, I let it slide. I don’t hold grudges and I try to understand where the other person is coming from. Yet, I incorrectly assumed that she would also do this. But…

… not everyone else is an ENTJ…

A few days later I got the nastiest, most passive-aggressive e-mail I’ve ever received in my life, because she didn’t have the balls to say this to my face (like an ENTJ would). It floored me. She accused me of trying to mother her children, blah blah blah… Who does this? I was pissed. I am rational. I don’t want to deal with her insecurities. She is an INFP, which I have since found out, and makes all the sense in the world to me.

… because I am an ENTJ, I approached my ENFJ brother begging for advice. How do I deal with this crazy woman? He thinks the same as me, only is much more considerate of other peoples feelings.

Anyway… her and I are okay now. We have a VERY tight family with usually awesome dynamics, great normal parents, etc. I still think she’s crazy, but I’m willing to watch my mouth a bit more around her for the sake of our family.

Moral of the story: family is forever, and is really the only thing you have in the end, so don’t screw it up. Be VERY careful how you treat other people because as an ENTJ we tend to not consider people’s FEELINGS and not everyone can let that go and forget about it 10 seconds later like most ENTJs can. If you have an INFP in your family, they will get crazy. Haha… You could start some real drama, when you altruistically intend to cut drama out.

I am definitely trying to get more in tune with my ENFJ side, since I am sick of offending other people and being too brash and having it backfire on me even though my intentions were good.


#23

While the points about family being family and we should be sensitive towards them are good, the other angle is that repressing ourselves is no good either.

I have a hard time subscribing to the family is forever idea. Family, at least to me, is the people I can open up to and be myself around. I always try to maintain the best relationship that I can with my family, but at our cores, we’re different people, and there’s only so much that we can compromise on.

I’ll be there for them, and they’ll be there for me, but there’s very little chance that I’ll ever see eye to eye with them.


#24

FIrst and 11 years older than the last :slight_smile: “Big Sis”


#25

Older of 2 siblings. I often wonder if most ENTJs are older siblings - this is a great source of (anecdotal) data.


#26

Hi I just want to say that I completely understand complicated family dynamics. I hear you about “Let’s talk” and we work something out. I work on this basis too.

I had a moment of sudden clarity some time ago. It isn’t about sovling / dealing with issues. Its about power, position & face (or reputation). I read the Good Earth by Pearl Buck. The writer is so perceptive of these things and expresses them so well. I am learning to be more aware of these and now factor them when I deal with people.

I found that most people don’t work on themselves or refuse to, and the only way is to persuade them to behave is with something like “Do you want people think that you are (negative adjective) because that is what you will be if you do this…” “OK then, I will tell everyone about this and they will know what you have done and kind of person you are.”