Growing ENTJ/INTJ/ENFJ Populations

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Re: Growing ENTJ/INTJ/ENFJ Populations

Postby Iron Mickie » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:31 pm

1) Kudos to everyone for responding!

2) I'm pretty sure that you are all taking "Growing ENTJ/INTJ/ENFJ Populations" to mean farming these types or cloning them on an island somewhere... I was thinking a strategy more like Catholics use.
Pope JP II, "Catholics, have more kids."

I meant the title as "Increasing the numbers of ENTJ, INTJ, ENFJ Populations"

Think more Marlon Brando in real life ~ 20+ kids
rather than
Marlon Brando in The Island of Dr. Moreau ~ Genetic Engineer of an island filled with animal people.

This concept was demonstrated when I said that we need to get out in the world in disguises and hook up with the other types I suggested.

3) My research through multiple forums is consistent with my statement that all other types envy us. Anywhere, on any forum around "ENTJ," you will find that most people express inferiority to us. Most often someone of the main type on the forum admits that we (ENTJ) are the best and would like to be like us, then the rest of that type rally behind statements of why their type is great and necessary. Go around and look for yourself. Most forums have a search feature. Search ENTJ and you will see the same results that I did.

4) Assuming that you are calling me a fascist for wanting to farm these types is reasonable, but that is not what I want. I just want ENTJs to have a lot of kids with mates that are ENTJ, INTJ, and ENFJ. Nothing wrong with a little active manipulating of the gene pool. Like I said earlier, most religions push this concept to "grow" their numbers (religion isn't genetic, but most of the time religious beliefs are passed down from generation to generation and retained well). Russia, the country, is encouraging it's citizens to have more kids as well. If you still think that I am a fascist for wanting this, then tell Pope John Paul II that he is too. Beyond that, I believe in expressing dissent, individuality, and government based on socialist capitalism (somewhere in the continuum between Socialism and Capitalism, more towards the middle than the U.S. already is e.g. Social Security, EPA, CHIP, Medicare, etc.).

5) The benefits of having just the types that I have described outweigh the benefits of having all types that currently exist. I see the strengths and weaknesses of all types and have found that the benefits of having a world of ENTJ, INTJ, and ENFJ are better than the benefits of having world consisting of all the types that currently exist. I argued against someone that said they wanted a world of just INTJ and ENTJ, using the argument that we work better with more resources (types) to pull from. However, still agreeing with the point that having a large pool of types yields good results, I decided a pool filled with ENTJ and INTJ would be more effective than a pool filled with all types. Thus, coming to the conclusion that the mix I described is probably the best way to sustain the human race.

6) There are very of us. I wasn't referring to the number of ENTJ's on this forum, but rather the number of us in the world. Of the people that have taken personality tests at school, work, etc. (a pretty random bunch I would believe) ENTJ comprises only 1.8% of the population. This is the smallest percentage of any personality type.

I see this idea of increasing our numbers as EXTREMELY realistic. Personality is genetic, we can pass on our genes, we can make more of us.
Increase ENTJ, INTJ, ENFJ populations, Increase chances for world peace.
The more positive, rational, logical, and improvement desiring personalities we have, the better off we are.

THE END.
It's lonely at the top, but the view is simply marvelous... : )
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Re: Growing ENTJ/INTJ/ENFJ Populations

Postby Ace_ » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:28 am

1. Personality is not genetically inherited, environment plays a big part
If your theory was correct, twins would not only look identical but behave identically. They would have the same personalities, which they don't. So you can't breed people to have specific personalities.
2. ENTJs need sensers, who would we lead?
3. There is nothing wrong with INTPs, ENFPs and all the other personality types. Some of the greatest people that ever lived were INTPs(Einsten), ENTP(Walt Disney), ENFP(Charles Dickens), INFJ (Nelson Mandela), INFP (J. R. R. Tolkien, Peter Jackson), ISFP (Pablo Picasso), there are also many sensers who are famous actors, dancers, painters... I don't know if all these famous people's types are true(I took them from a personality website) but I am 100% sure that many of these people were not ENTJs, INTJs nor ENFJs.
4. Thinking that everyone envies you and that everyone else is inferior are Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms.

You are an embarrassment to ENTJs. Change your way of thinking and come back down to Earth.
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Re: Growing ENTJ/INTJ/ENFJ Populations

Postby Iron Mickie » Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:28 pm

Ace_ wrote:1. Personality is not genetically inherited, environment plays a big part
If your theory was correct, twins would not only look identical but behave identically. They would have the same personalities, which they don't. So you can't breed people to have specific personalities.


Not only do I live in the real world, I have evidence to back up what I say. Personality is Nature vs. Nurture (as is EVERY SINGLE *BEHAVIORAL TRAIT* IN LIVING ORGANISMS), but one of these two concepts has more influence than the other (NATURE HAS MORE INFLUENCE). You will be an ENTJ for life, there is nothing you can do about it. You can mask your ENTJ features, but they will always be there, expressing themselves at the forefront of any thought. 100%. Here is some evidence (including situations involving twins):

    1)http://news.softpedia.com/news/Our-Personality-Is-It-Genetically-Inherited-or-Determined-by-The-Environmental-Factors-28413.shtml
    2)http://www.nytimes.com/1986/12/02/science/major-personality-study-finds-that-traits-are-mostly-inherited.html?sec=health
    3)http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=jvvtACJBt8UC&oi=fnd&pg=PA251&dq=personality+genetically+inherited&ots=rvdj-G77pA&sig=UGJJ7mCnT1vF-uFKKkee2_dGp1g
    4)http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/pdf_extract/264/5166/1700

Let this be the end of the argument against personality being genetically inherited before I have to put together a research project 100 articles deep to prove it. This is what I found in 5 minutes with free resources. Do some research against my point, present it, and I will accept your position as "informed."

Ace_ wrote:2. ENTJs need sensers, who would we lead?


INTJ and ENFJ. They would accept our leadership. We are good leaders and can mobilize anyone.


Ace_ wrote:3. There is nothing wrong with INTPs, ENFPs and all the other personality types. Some of the greatest people that ever lived were INTPs(Einsten), ENTP(Walt Disney), ENFP(Charles Dickens), INFJ (Nelson Mandela), INFP (J. R. R. Tolkien, Peter Jackson), ISFP (Pablo Picasso), there are also many sensers who are famous actors, dancers, painters... I don't know if all these famous people's types are true(I took them from a personality website) but I am 100% sure that many of these people were not ENTJs, INTJs nor ENFJs.


I am not saying that other types don't exhibit good traits, they do. But, my mix is the best one possible. The benefits of my mix outweigh the benefits of all types together or any other mix. Explain to me why they wouldn't be. Beyond that, Walt Disney was a Nazi sympathizer, so probably not a good example. I am not going to pick apart your examples beyond Walt Disney. Explain why my point is incorrect with reasons why a different mix has benefits that outweigh the benefits of my mix.


Ace_ wrote:4. Thinking that everyone envies you and that everyone else is inferior are Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms.


Like I said earlier, my research is consistent. Other types express inferiority to us. Example:

FROM INTJFORUM.COM (the most able other type)

TITLE OF TOPIC IS "INTJ and ENTJ Advantages and Disadvantages"

By "Santana28" on October of 2007. This "Santana28" has 1,300 posts in the forum.

"thats a good question. seems to me from my experience that the only person who can beat me at my own game is an ENTJ... i really wouldn't begin to know what we have an "Advantage" over them with, except perhaps in the realm of self-understanding and self-awareness. Seems like ENTJs spend less time focusing their thoughts inward on themselves, and they look for more external clues as to who they are. I think we are much more able to tell you exactly how we feel and why we feel it, whereas the more extroverted types spend more time doing things and looking at the results, than contemplating their thought processes."




All I did was type in ENTJ into INTJFORUM.COM's search feature and this was the first thing that popped up. Go to other forums and you will see the same results. Actually, Ace, you should have seen this, as your were on there asking for direction to an ENTJ forum. Just a coincidence that I found this fact; I assure you that I have no care of anything about you beyond this forum. The world of forums based on MB type is a small one.

Ace_ wrote:You are an embarrassment to ENTJs. Change your way of thinking and come back down to Earth.


Now that you have valid information to understand my side of the argument, present yours.... or change your opinion.
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Re: Growing ENTJ/INTJ/ENFJ Populations

Postby Ace_ » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:49 am

- I've read all those links and they don't prove your theory. As I said nature is not the only thing that shapes our personality, nurture plays a big part. Most scientists agree that it's nature+nurture, not nature vs. nurture.
- INTJs and ENFJs do not like to be led. Especially the INTJs. I know, I'm a member of their forum and have a couple of hundred posts there. They highly value independence.
- How the hell do you know that your mix is the best one possible?? Do you have a "life and everything simulator" at home so you can test the possible outcome of the future with those 3 types?
- As I said, I read the INTJforum regularly and I can say that they don't feel inferior to us. Some of them do, but they're probably depressed and socially inept or even underdeveloped ENTJs masquerading as introverts. Most of them don't feel inferior to us, and they have expressed some of our bad traits which has been a great help in improving myself. We do have advantages over them, but they have advantages over us.

You see admiration as expressing inferiority which is also a narcissistic trait. Ofcourse some people are going to admire us but you know what? Some people admire the ENFPs, some people admire the INTPs and so on...

This whole topic is ridiculous and I'm afraid what other smart people might think of us when they read this. You are feeding the "ENTJ egotistical Nazi" stereotype.
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Re: Growing ENTJ/INTJ/ENFJ Populations

Postby Iron Mickie » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:19 pm

Nature shapes what we can and can't do. Can you fly using only your own body? You are hardwired to think by a certain process. You can do your best to get around it, but it will always be there. The research is consistent with nature shaping our personalities, that we can improve upon slightly. Let me know the day when you stop being an ENTJ.

INTJ's would be moving and progressing in a thousand different directions without a common goal, we can help them work together for a common goal (that they agree with). Leadership doesn't mean forcing people to do things they don't want to do. Leadership means guiding people to a beneficial outcome that they agree with.

These personality types are mainly altruistic or at least extremely able to achieve goals that are necessary for real world safety and peace.


Would you like to be like someone you admire? Micheal Jordan, Bill Gates, President Obama, Ghandi? Admiration and Envy are very closely related, one is just more negative than the other.


Reasoning of why I think others want to be like us is not just narcissistic if it's true (which it is, once again look in other forums).


Why are you afraid of what others will think of us, and you by extension? Do you not consider yourself smart?

I am not egotistical, and especially not a fascist or a Nazi. I am rational, and these are the patterns I see.
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Re: Growing ENTJ/INTJ/ENFJ Populations

Postby Shadow1986 » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:43 am

Iron Mickie wrote:Nature shapes what we can and can't do. Can you fly using only your own body? You are hardwired to think by a certain process. You can do your best to get around it, but it will always be there. The research is consistent with nature shaping our personalities, that we can improve upon slightly. Let me know the day when you stop being an ENTJ.

INTJ's would be moving and progressing in a thousand different directions without a common goal, we can help them work together for a common goal (that they agree with). Leadership doesn't mean forcing people to do things they don't want to do. Leadership means guiding people to a beneficial outcome that they agree with.

These personality types are mainly altruistic or at least extremely able to achieve goals that are necessary for real world safety and peace.


Would you like to be like someone you admire? Micheal Jordan, Bill Gates, President Obama, Ghandi? Admiration and Envy are very closely related, one is just more negative than the other.


Reasoning of why I think others want to be like us is not just narcissistic if it's true (which it is, once again look in other forums).


Why are you afraid of what others will think of us, and you by extension? Do you not consider yourself smart?

I am not egotistical, and especially not a fascist or a Nazi. I am rational, and these are the patterns I see.



lol

The ENTJs and ENFJ would all be trying to control and lead each other, and would proably just end up fighting one another. Behind the scenes the INTJs would be scheming and plotting...


The amusing thing is the inherent lack of followers (SJ temperament) and intiators of true change and perfectionism (artisans {ISFPs}and SPs in general). I particularily refer to ISFPs, because of their extrodinarily high refinement of Fi, which pretty much none of the types you mentioned have in abundant quantitiy...

that's a real worry, because such a condition in a society results in a lack of true introspection, and indicates a lack awareness of the importance of the role of PERCEPTION (as such which is accentuated in artwork).
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Re: Growing ENTJ/INTJ/ENFJ Populations

Postby Iron Mickie » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:56 pm

Alright, alright. I will admit that this probably wouldn't work, completely. But, I do think that the world would be a better place if there were more ENTJ, ENFJ, INTJ types. So, the bottom line is still the same, "Go forth and make more of us."
It's lonely at the top, but the view is simply marvelous... : )
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Re: Growing ENTJ/INTJ/ENFJ Populations

Postby syndatha » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:28 pm

Ace_ wrote:Iron Mickie, the thing that caused my comment is the fact that you think that the 13 other personality types are "ruining" the world. The whole topic is hilarious. How the hell did Einstein(INTP) ruin the world??


He invented the A-bomb... I personally think the world would have been nicer without nuclear weapons :lol:
I do think that all the types contribute to the world - in good or bad ways. But I prefer to be around N-types :)
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Re: Growing ENTJ/INTJ/ENFJ Populations

Postby Ace_ » Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:48 pm

Isn't J. Robert Oppenheimer the father of the A-bomb?

Here are some of Einstein's contributions to the world:

* The special theory of relativity, which reconciled mechanics with electromagnetism
* The general theory of relativity, a new theory of gravitation obeying the equivalence principle.
* Founding of relativistic cosmology with a cosmological constant
* The first post-Newtonian expansion, explaining the perihelion advance of Mercury
* Prediction of the deflection of light by gravity and gravitational lensing
* The first fluctuation dissipation theorem which explained the Brownian movement of molecules
* The theory of density fluctuations in gasses and liquids, giving a criterion for critical opalescence
* The photon theory and wave-particle duality derived from the thermodynamic properties of light
* The quantum theory of atomic motion in solids
* Zero-point energy
* The semiclassical version of the Schrödinger equation
* Relations for atomic transition probabilities which predicted stimulated emission
* The quantum theory of a monatomic gas which predicted Bose-Einstein condensation
* The EPR paradox
* A program for a unified field theory
* The geometrization of fundamental physics.
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Re: Growing ENTJ/INTJ/ENFJ Populations

Postby syndatha » Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:20 am

Ace, you're right about that I think; in fact Wikipedia doesn't even mention Einstein in the article History of nuclear weapons :geek:
I'm glad you cleared his name - I've always considered Einstein responsible for nuclear weapons, which is obviously really unfair :naughty:
And that is a good example of one ENTJ-issue; jumping to conclusions and being hard on others. Good thing we're not alone :mrgreen:
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