Messing with NFs

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Messing with NFs

Postby ComplexMango » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:40 am

I guess ENTJ Forum is a little bit of an echo chamber - i.e. people mostly agree with each other. I remember having some fun with NFs a while ago, when I was exploring the Typology Forums, and didn't agree with a lot of stuff I read. Enjoy:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/politics-history-current-events/19886-healthcare-38.html#post815429

I wasn't trying to be mean, it was just like shooting fish in a barrel though. Entertaining.
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Re: Messing with NFs

Postby JaneX » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:10 am

Awwww LOL trying to rationalize with a feeling type :P !! :D :D :D
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Re: Messing with NFs

Postby lamer » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:55 pm

JaneX wrote:Awwww LOL trying to rationalize with a feeling type :P !! :D :D :D

No, i think some NFs already destroyed his life. And he is miserable now :mrgreen:
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Re: Messing with NFs

Postby Sligh » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:16 am

Mr. Mango, I STRONGLY disagree with you. I know I risk starting a VERY LONG discussion and also have total clarity that neither of us will probably be convinced, but I digress.

(What you said is going between **).

*If you don't like the procedures your insurance company is picking, you can CHANGE your insurance company.*

Except there's a little thing called monopoly. That's what the big companies ACTUALLY do when there's no control on part of the government. And even if they didn't, being subject to the same market laws make them adopt similar politics. If you look at your country's health care plans they are all pretty similar at the same price range. If you are rich you get good health care. If you are middle-class you get good health care, but this really cripples your budget. If you are poor you are totally screwed.

*But when the govt is running an enforced healthcare monopoly, like in Canada or the UK, you don't have a choice, unless you have zee beaucoup bucks. If you think private care in the US is expensive, try private care in the UK or Canada.*

Except you don't NEED private care there. Because public care actually works pretty well (and if you look up actual data you'll see that Canada's system is among the best five in the world and the English one has its failures, but overall works pretty well, certainly way better then the one you guys got).

You see, I live in a third world country. And I'm proud to say that even though the average Brazilian probably have worst health care then the average American, people under the poverty line here are not just gonna be tossed in the streets in the name of "free competition".

And About the "4 ways of spending money" thing: this is only true if the person you're talking about is a total bastard.

Bottom line what I'm saying is that economic liberalism has been proven false by history (no, I'm not a liberal, I'm a libertarian, BIG difference) throw virtue of successive crises where the countries had to - guess what? - intervene in the economy in order not to crumble.

I particularly think that no condition essential to human dignity should be left to private corporation, because they simply won't provide it. I also believed in meritocracy but about 15 I started to seriously study history and then I realized it doesn't work simply because not all people START at the same point to begin with.

Really, what are you afraid of? Communism? Look at the world: Russia is a not-so-solid capitalist economy, China is a crazy dictatorship that lives under market rules, except internally and Cuba... really... poor Cuba. Do you really still need to operate into cold-war era paradigms?

Eye for an eye and everybody ends up blind.
Last edited by Sligh on Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Messing with NFs

Postby lamer » Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:10 am

unfortunately, i think complex mango is right in this case, Marcos!
i will come back to show you some data that support for it.( predict for the future of Obama plan, and the effect of the economy- mostly industries envolved from that plan)
I think you should ask yourself 1 question:
-where the money come from that supports for Obama plan? isn't it from taxes? ( which YOU have to pay)
- The quality of the healthcare service you receive compared to the amount you paid for the taxes , and compare with the amount you pay for insurance company for private healthcare instead.
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Re: Messing with NFs

Postby Sligh » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:19 am

I don't know about the actual Obama plan (I don't know it in depth, you can actually start a public health care plan and just end up taxing people and delivering nothing, I'm assuming Obama's crew is neither incompetent nor ill-intentioned). But, done right, the answers to your questions would be:

"where the money come from that supports for Obama plan? isn't it from taxes?"

Yes, but there are more ways of taxing then just establishing some number or percentage. Also, government finances have multiple sources and priority can be made. I'd first look for by reducing investments on things that the big companies should (and actually WOULD) do for themselves (you know, the kind of thing they pay lobbyists to force the government to do, because it is cheaper). That alone would cover health care and MORE. But let's assume it wouldn't. You can tax people progressively (richer people pay more) or tax some activity (here in Brazil we had a tax over bank transactions that would go to health care, it was an emergency measure that has been put behind us now). Or you could do it with the money you are printing (since, you know, USA is already doing it to fight recession).

The quality of the healthcare service you receive compared to the amount you paid for the taxes , and compare with the amount you pay for insurance company for private healthcare instead.

Are you suggesting that the government that doesn't need to pay taxes, has no competition whatsoever and can make laws to enforce it's policies is going to spent MORE resources then particulars would? And in case you are talking 'you' as in some generic average Joe: again, done right, you can make the coasts not bite average Joe's ass. Anyway, just my two cents.
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Re: Messing with NFs

Postby LOST TALE » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:28 am

Sligh wrote:take virtue of successive crises where the countries had to - guess what? - intervene in the economy in order not to crumble.

Canada Confederation(yeah its actually federation with a centralising federal gov lol) Creation until 2008 when Satan himself embodies our Governement, which is now named the Harper government instead of Government of Canada, which is probably the best (I'm serious) decision the government has made. I'll just migrate, like a boss.
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Re: Messing with NFs

Postby LOST TALE » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:34 am

Sligh wrote:Bottom line what I'm saying is that economic liberalism has been proven false by history (no, I'm not a liberal, I'm a libertarian, BIG difference) throw virtue of successive crises where the countries had to - guess what? - intervene in the economy in order not to crumble.
Can you explain to me libertarianism? My only vague konwledge (not part of my politics, besides the US Oligarchy trying to invade our politics) is that its some sort of right-wing bunch of rhetoric reactionists.
I only know liberalism , neo-liberalism . But I don't know libertanism.
(btw what you seem to use the word liberalism for, is actually neo-liberalism by my vocabulary. but since its not much new anymore then I guess)
Liberal and conservative have become ambiguous words.
NT's are Liberal :D other's are scared of change no matter its implications, because they dont understand them ( S's ) S for Scared of the unknown.
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Re: Messing with NFs

Postby LOST TALE » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:38 am

Sligh wrote:I don't know about the actual Obama plan (I don't know it in depth, you can actually start a public health care plan and just end up taxing people and delivering nothing, I'm assuming Obama's crew is neither incompetent nor ill-intentioned). But, done right, the answers to your questions would be:


What is Obama care more exactly? A governement insurance agency? An actual health care system?

Gosh, just make a healthcare company owned by the states, that will actually be customer friendly, break the competitions and GG there goes US Health Care!

To be perfectly honest, I'm not advanced enough in macro economics to judge this: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/0 ... blogs&_r=0
but he looks legit :D, time to test it on some ENTJ's
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