Is Barack Obama an INTJ Mastermind?

What temperament types are the movers and shakers?

Is Barack Obama an INTJ Mastermind?

Postby ComplexMango » Sun May 17, 2009 1:33 pm

Not that I'm a big fan - but do you agree that BHO is a Mastermind?
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Re: Is Barack Obama an INTJ Mastermind?

Postby Ace_ » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:26 pm

I don't know, INTJs are rarely good diplomats. They're grumpy, blunt and introverted.

Obama seems like a feeler to me although he doesn't have to be, maybe he's just a good diplomat. Also I'm pretty sure he's an extrovert and intuitive. ENFJ, ENTJ, ENTP and ENFP are my guesses.
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Re: Is Barack Obama an INTJ Mastermind?

Postby nick » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:53 pm

Ace,

I think Obama is actually not much of a diplomat. He has offended the UK prime minister, the Queen, multiple foreign leaders. His primary skillset seems to be winning elections; and doing it in a strategic, rather than tactical manner.

I agree that he is intuitive rather than sensing, so we agree on the "N." I think the "good diplomat" impression he leaves people with is really good acting. He knows how to "act presidential" without really taking the interests of the other party into account.

Also, it seems highly unlikely he is a feeler. Despite his media persona, he is more likely quite cold and calculating. Would an "F" have made the Special Olympics gaffe? I can't imagine Bill Clinton making that mistake.

The NTs are the mobilizers (ENTJ), the entailers (INTJ), the designers (INTP), and the devisors (ENTP). I think we can quickly rule out INTP; if he were designing a theoretical system, he would have used his time at the University of Chicago to test the veracity of his own ideas (ask himself if his chosen values of social democracy are logically valid and sound). By all accounts (I was also there at the time), he did nothing of the kind. Also, it is unlikely he is an "E." Other people are only incidental to his goals (unlike the ENTJ mobilizers for example). Look at his election night victory speech when counter to tradition, all, including his family and VP-elect Biden were ushered off the stage so Obama could have a single spotlight pointing on himself.

I think the Kiersey analysis of INTJ "entailer," is spot on. Meaning, whatever ends he has chosen, he will do what and only what it takes to achieve them. (And do so in a strategically calculating way.)

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Re: Is Barack Obama an INTJ Mastermind?

Postby openedskittles » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:52 pm

I know this is just part of politics, but he seems like quite the feeler. I know he's trying to appeal to feelers, seeing as most of them statistically vote democrat, but he's all about vague, feel-good concepts.

I think a J would want to express more specifics and actual actions rather than inspirational plans. I think a T would consider more rational ideas, which would not include redistributing wealth, counter-intuitive ways to attract jobs such as raising corporate income tax, or universal health care, which upon even moderate examination has provided a less desirable system in the model nation, France, and upon first glance has clearly failed miserably in Massachusetts.

NTs generally define justice as what is correct, not what is equal like Obama and feelers would. He was clearly raised and taught with many strong far left influences, but I think it is unlike an NTJ to absorb them so much. It seems like it should be an FP trait, and his feel-good, inspirational speeches are very N.

Again, I know that he needs to appeal to his primary supporters who are mostly feelers. This is politics after all, and he could simply be a very good politician who can mask his true type well enough to gain support. However, I still think he is most likely something within 1 or maybe 2 letters of ENFP.
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Re: Is Barack Obama an INTJ Mastermind?

Postby openedskittles » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:54 pm

openedskittles wrote:I know this is just part of politics, but he seems like quite the feeler. I know he's trying to appeal to feelers, seeing as most of them statistically vote democrat, but he's all about vague, feel-good concepts.

I think a J would want to express more specifics and actual actions rather than inspirational plans without much, if any, backing. I think a T would consider more rational ideas, which would not include redistributing wealth, counter-intuitive ways to attract jobs such as raising corporate income tax, or universal health care, which upon even moderate examination has provided a less desirable system in the model nation, France, and upon first glance has clearly failed miserably in Massachusetts.

NTs generally define justice as what is correct, not what is equal like Obama and feelers would. He was clearly raised and taught with many strong far left influences, but I think it is unlike an NTJ to absorb them so much. It seems like it should be an FP trait, and his feel-good, inspirational speeches are very N.

Again, I know that he needs to appeal to his primary supporters who are mostly feelers. This is politics after all, and he could simply be a very good politician who can mask his true type well enough to gain support. However, I still think he is most likely something within 1 or maybe 2 letters of ENFP.
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Re: Is Barack Obama an INTJ Mastermind?

Postby nick » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:57 am

openedskittles wrote:Again, I know that he needs to appeal to his primary supporters who are mostly feelers. This is politics after all, and he could simply be a very good politician who can mask his true type well enough to gain support. However, I still think he is most likely something within 1 or maybe 2 letters of ENFP.


I think this is right on. He is INTJ (mastermind), pretending to be ENFP (champion). He wants to convince you that he is all about inspiration and possibility (like ENFPs), and a great many feelers fell for it. But the INTJs see life as a chess match, planning their moves in advance to achieve their chosen ends. He saw the ENFP routine as a great strategy.

If you are confused about why a Rational NT would buy into any of the nonsense policies you mentioned, the answer is that they don't. The normal NT knows that none of them can withstand a cursory logical investigation. However, the evil NT may use the ideas that appeal to feelers in order to manipulate them. A great archetype of the evil rational is Ellsworth Toohey in Rand's The Fountainhead.


The plan here is:

1. Sell the feelers a load of bull
2. Become president and live like a king, with the attention of the world on you
3. Get through your entire life without an honest day's work
4. Leave a huge mess for the country to worry about when you are out of office
5. Still be famous with a massive fan base of dim-bulbs (see Jimmy Carter)
6. Enjoy all the freebies of a retired president, collect lots of undeserved accolades (see Nobel Peace Prize)
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Re: Is Barack Obama an INTJ Mastermind?

Postby Curtis24 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:11 pm

As Keirsey points out, most NTs have the potential to be excellent strategists. That being said, Obama could be an INTJ who strategically pretended to be an INFJ or ENFJ in order to be elected.
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Re: Is Barack Obama an INTJ Mastermind?

Postby ComplexMango » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:44 am

Curtis24 wrote:As Keirsey points out, most NTs have the potential to be excellent strategists. That being said, Obama could be an INTJ who strategically pretended to be an INFJ or ENFJ in order to be elected.


PRECISELY.

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Re: Is Barack Obama an INTJ Mastermind?

Postby Stewie » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:21 pm

:clap:
Last edited by Stewie on Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is Barack Obama an INTJ Mastermind?

Postby senada » Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:36 am

He's some sort of 'E' personality, and I reckon he's ENFJ or an ENFP. Possibly ENTP, but not as much as he is the former two.

If he comes off as strategic, then the backbone are those working behind him (advisers, speech-writers, etc... that may consist of NT rationals). ENFJs and ENFPs are future-oriented too. ENFJs like to see growth and improvement; ENFPs like to see change happen wherever it deems fit - they are pro-freedom and what not... these people can be successful in life if their thoughts/ideas/actions are put into perspective (sometimes by the help of somebody else who can guide them in the process). It can be possible that Obama is an NF with an NT managing him.

I think that if he was an INTJ, he'd be just as focused and dedicated in his speeches and pointing out what policies and what not would work... but don't you think an INTJ would put a lot of energy in explaining why their ideas would work?

Another thing is that if he's an INTJ that developed interpersonal skills through his involvement in activities whilst growing up (which is possible); equally enough, an ENFJ and ENFP in their experiences can also develop sound logic, which explains why Obama may come off as a rational from time to time. Additionally, I think (though I don't know exactly which personalities) there's a personality or two (even three) that may have Extraverted-Intuition/Feeling but think using introverted-thinking...
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